Map Submission(s) | Minisiege

[Off-Brand]

Greetings, I have been playing on Minisiege for the past couple of months and I got inspired to create some additional maps to the existing pool. These are the first maps I have created for M&B (and first for any multiplayer) so I would be open to changes and suggestions. I sought to incorporate new mechanics and change the overall dynamic of siege in order to reward defense for being steadfast and maintaining map control. I'm not sure if this is the right place to submit map creations but here are the three maps I have currently finished for consideration. I would love to hear any feedback (even if you trash my* maps!).


*!Important!: I used Duesda's Bastille model of the actual Bastille and some of the surrounding elements but modified it to be a siege map (only the structure itself and the overall block palate were used). All credit goes to him for an amazing build (I tried to make one and it looked awful). Links to his steam profile and map are below. Furthermore, Map #1 and Map #2 are my own creation, I have a preliminary drawing for the layout of Map #2 and for the modified Map #3


P.S. I have read Gretel's mapping thread and I am aware that map 2 and 3 are exceptionally large compared to the explicit requirement given in regards to file size, so some advice on that matter would be appreciated.


Map #1: Island Hopping (custom map 1)
Suggested Teams: Defense - France | Offense - Great Britain
File Size: 137 KB
Scene.txt: 
scn_mp_custom_map_1 mp_custom_map_1 256 none none 0.000000 0.000000 100.000000 100.000000 -100.000000 0x00000001300040810005194a0000000000005ae800003c55

  0

  0
outer_terrain_beach
Preview Image:  



Map #2: Mountain Fort (custom map 2)
Suggested Teams: Admin's Choice
File Size: !435 KB!
Scene.txt:
scn_mp_custom_map_2 mp_custom_map_2 256 none none 0.000000 0.000000 100.000000 100.000000 -100.000000 0x00000001300040810005194a0000000000005ae800003c55

  0

  0
outer_terrain_plain
Preview Image: 


Map #3: Storming the Bastille (custom map 5)
Modified from Duesda's Bastille:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/f...t=bastille 
Duesda's Steam Profile: [/url][url=https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198023667744]https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198023667744
Suggested Teams: France either Offense or Defense, German Faction opposing
File Size: !770 KB!
Scene.txt:
scn_mp_custom_map_5 mp_custom_map_5 256 none none 0.000000 0.000000 100.000000 100.000000 -100.000000 0x00000001300040810005194a0000000000005ae800003c55

  0

  0
outer_terrain_plain
Preview Image: 

Download Link for the Scene OBJs
(Password: Minisiege)


Thanks for sticking through the long read and feel free to reply or add me on Steam. I stay in Invisible mode often so don't assume I am offline; if i do not immediately respond to an inquiry wait a couple of hours, I will check at least twice a day for messages/requests.

M&B IGN: HotnSpicyTacos

[Gretel]

Hello!

First of all, thanks for taking your time to create these, it isn't often we get map assistance. I, and another map guru in our team, will take an indepth look shortly ad give any constructive criticism and positive feedback we have to help you along.

If you need any help with mapping please don't hesitate to ask here, or pm me or - Sam on our discord (we'll reply faster there). We both know how frustrating mapping can be, so if we can speed up your creative flow that's great!

I'll reply here when I'm back from work today and have checked out the maps.

[Off-Brand]

Thanks Gretel, just update me when you can. 

[Gretel]

Ok - I've personally checked the maps and have the following (Very long read, sorry):

For first edits, these are very good - great work! Good attention to smaller details and gameplay features, something I like to see in maps is smaller things for players to interact with and do; such as this thing you did in custom map 2: 


I'll list each map and the small things I noticed and my suggestions below, in order of when I notice them so it's probably all over the place lmao;

Custom map 5:
- I like the idea, a lot, I always wanted a map like that but like you said yourself I tried too and failed haha. However, would need to also ask Duesdas explicit permission considering the base is theirs too. 
- Map size is large, so would be exclusive to out of rotation
- The map seems rather "linear" to me, where you have to run in straight lines with cannons facing you every route. That would make it very hard for attackers and make for a long run, something a lot of players don't like.

Custom map 2:
- I love the small details you added such as the little map of the map in the map (map-ception). I'd recommend using a different prop for the table tho, so the "view campaign map" button isn't there. I'd recommend mm_tablebig2, for example.
- I like the different approaches you can go to reach the flag, so the gameplay isn't repetitive and there's many ways to play the map. The tunnels are a nice touch, but need some work on the entrance from attacker side, as the players head clips there slightly (I have OCD for minor details like this, i'm sorry )
- There's some texture glitching with overlapped props on the rear wall, another minor thing but I like them to not do that in all maps where possible 
- Some props don't connect properly to each other, so they're floating slightly or there's gaps.
- Arty ammo boxes auto generate with cannons, so to check they spawn in their proper location switch your gamemode to siege then spawn in to see where they spawn, another thing I have OCD with is their ammo boxes spawning correctly, something like this I don't like personally:

- Attacker spawns on this map seem rather far to me, would lead to a long run which a lot don't like. I usually stick by the rule of attacking spawn is where their arty is situated. In this maps case, it isn't too far away but cuts some walk time over that hill etc so helps. (another thing, some bushes back there are floating, probably due to you editing terrain later after adding them)
- A suggestion for later iterations; some easter eggs hidden in that attacking little town back right or in their old spawn 
- Terrain is the ultimate thing that adds map size to your download, so try to keep editing that down to a bare minimum. Props make no where near the size of the map compared to raising or lowing a slight bit of dirt. On that note, some of the terrain needs to be checked over, so it doesn't look so "jagged", in the tunnel it's probably fine but on land it's nice to keep a natural look to the whole map.
- The stairs out of the tunnel are quite steep - you could possibly replace this with a ladder and teleportation doors instead of the steep climb into gun fire. 
- Some detail on the bit that sticks out towards attacker spawn on inner fort, where the brick fountain is, would be nice too. It's very "red" with all them bricks, some crates, barrels, weapons etc would liven that up.

Custom Map 1: 
- A nice idea for a map! It involves boats, but not the janky NW naval battles haha 
- We'd probably keep this to a smaller map, voteable, with a small player count e.g. like max 80 players.
- Minor; but the edge of the main bridge doesn't connect properly to the sand
- Mortar on attacking side may be OP as hell, if it clips the boat right - which it might not - but can't tell until play testing.
- Probably best to move defending spawns into the "captains quaters" part of the main ship, as spawning them in the direct line of the enemies might be a bad idea from a gameplay perspective
- Apart from those, I can't really find much else wrong with this map until it's play tested with real people tbh. 

Overall, great work and these maps definitly show promise and would make fine additions to new maps on our server. For first edits, these are extremely good and from a gameplay perspective have many fun aspects. 
Have a look at what I said and see what you think, then post back here with another iteration of the maps addressing those issues I brought up above and then from there Sam or I can fix any other issues we find out in our more rigorous playtests. 

Again, thanks so much for putting your time and effort into these, I hope I wasn't too critical for yo

[Off-Brand]

Sorry I have taken so long to get back to you. I was busy over the past day and was also thinking about some of your comments. First of all, I appreciate that you took the time to look at them and critique them (I would have been suspicious if you did not have any notes!). I would be very comfortable with most of your recommendations and I will address them below.


Custom Map 1:

We'd probably keep this to a smaller map, voteable, with a small player count e.g. like max 80 players.

I completely agree, this was my first map ever so I was concerned it was a bit small and that is why I overcompensated on custom map 2 and made it perhaps a bit too large.

Minor; but the edge of the main bridge doesn't connect properly to the sand
Probably best to move defending spawns into the "captains quaters" part of the main ship, as spawning them in the direct line of the enemies might be a bad idea from a gameplay perspective

Easy fix, I can get that done super quick for both matters. Should i do something specific with that front deck spawn or just leave it empty as an extra room (add details)?

Mortar on attacking side may be OP as hell, if it clips the boat right - which it might not - but can't tell until play testing

Probably, play testing would help that. If it does not work out we can go from there. It was intended to help clear some of the roofs that are hard to attack/reach but I can see how it could just splash on the flag and kill 5+ people (teamkilling too).


Custom Map 2:

I love the small details you added such as the little map of the map in the map (map-ception). I'd recommend using a different prop for the table tho, so the "view campaign map" button isn't there. I'd recommend mm_tablebig2, for example.

Another easy fix, I added the map since I know its a complex map that would be confusing for unfamiliar players.

 I like the different approaches you can go to reach the flag, so the gameplay isn't repetitive and there's many ways to play the map. The tunnels are a nice touch, but need some work on the entrance from attacker side, as the players head clips there slightly 

Thanks, another quick fix but a bit tricky since the ground level tool is annoying, might add another ground prop(s) if I cannot make them work.

There's some texture glitching with overlapped props on the rear wall, another minor thing but I like them to not do that in all maps where possible 

Some props don't connect properly to each other, so they're floating slightly or there's gaps.

Arty ammo boxes auto generate with cannons, so to check they spawn in their proper location switch your gamemode to siege then spawn in to see where they spawn

Got it

Attacker spawns on this map seem rather far to me, would lead to a long run which a lot don't like. I usually stick by the rule of attacking spawn is where their arty is situated. In this maps case, it isn't too far away but cuts some walk time over that hill etc so helps. (another thing, some bushes back there are floating, probably due to you editing terrain later after adding them). 

Terrain is the ultimate thing that adds map size to your download, so try to keep editing that down to a bare minimum. Props make no where near the size of the map compared to raising or lowing a slight bit of dirt. On that note, some of the terrain needs to be checked over, so it doesn't look so "jagged", in the tunnel it's probably fine but on land it's nice to keep a natural look to the whole map.

That was also a concern for me, just behind the arty seems fine but should I spread them behind each redoubt or behind only the center redoubt with the howitzers? I will work on smoothing the terrain and maybe cut down a bit on file size by hollowing the back of the mountains to the right of the fort.

The stairs out of the tunnel are quite steep - you could possibly replace this with a ladder and teleportation doors instead of the steep climb into gun fire

I would prefer a staircase if possible so I will experiment with it first and try to make it flatter, I do not feel that teleport doors would work for the flow I intended so at most I would switch to ladders. Also I found a bug that allows sappers to block players from climbing the stairs that were very hard to destroy since the stairs were steep. I will experiment with it.

Some detail on the bit that sticks out towards attacker spawn on inner fort, where the brick fountain is, would be nice too. It's very "red" with all them bricks, some crates, barrels, weapons etc would liven that up

Sure, on a related note I noticed that it is a bit hard to spot where your shots are going with arty since the walls are all red (i.e. Hard to have depth perception). How would you go about making each part of the fort more distinguishable from eachother?

Custom Map 5:

 I like the idea, a lot, I always wanted a map like that but like you said yourself I tried too and failed haha. However, would need to also ask Duesdas explicit permission considering the base is theirs too. 

I contacted Duesda on his workshop page and added him but his profile is private so I do not know if he is still an active steam user anymore. What steps should I take if I cannot contact him? 
I got a reply from Duesda on his workshop page stating he is fine with me modifying his map. I attached a screenshot of it.
   

Map size is large, so would be exclusive to out of rotation

Yup. I can try to cutoff some of the buildings so there are no unnecessary streets and flatten the river terrain beyond the water entrance by the bastion. The goal would be to create a square of detailed land around the Bastille and flatten the rest out.

The map seems rather "linear" to me, where you have to run in straight lines with cannons facing you every route. That would make it very hard for attackers and make for a long run, something a lot of players don't like.

I attached my proposed edits to the ground leading up to the fortress entrance.
   

To summarize the goal is to create two flank routes: Secondary Flank: one along the moat that is faster but more deadly for attackers. Tertiary Flank: one that goes around the outside of the buildings leading to the staircase that has no cannons and flanks the cannons along the main route. This way the goal of the attackers would be to push the main flank (to close the teleport shortcut) and the tertiary flank (to counter cannons) at the same time. Once they secure both of those routes they can use the secondary flank to shorten the length of time it takes to reach the castle entrance. 

Conclusion:
All of your feedback was very ingratiating and I want to thank you again for spending the time to work with me. I agree with all of your tweaks and will work on all of them this weekend and update you map by map. One last question would be if there are any specific recommendations you want to do personally or if I can do them all and send them back to you for review? Let me know and I will get on it! 
 

[Gretel]

One last question would be if there are any specific recommendations you want to do personally or if I can do them all and send them back to you for review? Let me know and I will get on it!  

Not particularly, you can them and send them back again here once you're done! I'm currently working on getting new Conquest maps installed on the server 

And about Duesda, that's fine and great!

[Off-Brand]

I have finished the edits for the first 2 maps. I had an issue with editing the terrain on custom map 2 where I cut out parts the mountains to lower the file size. The original file size for the first was 435 KB so I checked the file size before (455 KB) and after I deleted the terrain and it still said 455 KB so I do not know how that is possible since I cut about a 1/10th of the map to level 0. Do you know what happened there? (There is no way I added enough props to make the difference equivalent) 

Here is the link to download them
Password: Minisiege2

Other than the issue mentioned above everything else seemed to work out fine, just take a look and make sure I got all of your notes. I am still working on custom map 5 and will update you in a separate post. Thanks!

[Gretel]

Any terrain edits are saved, even if you set them to level 0. Terrain edits add a lot of map "weight", so if you edited the terrain then re-edited it again it'll still save the horrificially large amount of data in the map size. Only real way to do that is, annoyingly, to "clear all" when editing terrain levels and re-do it to try and avoid touching as much terrain as possible, but that often is not realistic to try lmao

I'll check them out again shortly!

[Off-Brand]

Based off your last post I have decided to temporarily postpone custom map 5 for a while. The original download from Duesda was over 700KB so there is no way to get the file size under that without rebuilding parts of his map from scratch which would be an enormous effort. Since I enjoyed the style of custom map 1, I am instead thinking of working on a extended version of the map and making it more viable for a larger amount of players. 

I am getting started on it and will send you a link to download once I finish. I have one more question for you: How did you get the explosive barrels able to detonate like those on the Bastion Gate map under the bridge? Is it server side or a specific prop? 

Thanks

[Gretel]

For explosive props with use button it's crate_explosive_fra (under name it's spr_crate_explosive_fra, spr is ignored if you start typing up side so uses the first I put). I'd only place these in strategic places and not as a common prop, to avoid lag.

I checked the maps btw, edits for the bigger map look great! It's just down to play testing properly now to gather any more problems. 
Map 1 looks good too, we'll just have to see how it pans out with the 1 bridge for attackers to use and boats... Boats never end well on a public server, so I just hope they don't get massacred on the 1 bridge. 1 more thing I noticed is the defender spawn looks a little "off" because of the prop used for the floor above, the legs of the winery barrel platform stick down so make it hard to navigate slightly. Maybe use a ground prop instead, like ground_prop1 or ground_prop4?

I'll await your next iterations, looking forward to it! I'm working on a bigger update currently so would be great to have your maps added in too with them, but no rush because I'm also making a whole map from scratch too